Curse

JR · Jun 10, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Guild Hall Analysis: Warriors Isle

This map is a favorite of mine, despite certain imbalances in it. It is a very broad map, allowing for a decent amount of flexibility without being a haven for split like Frozen Isle. I am also a fan of the addition of Catapults, and the extra strategy they offer.

Map:

General Stragey on this map:
At the start of the map you should have one player take Guild Thief (usually a Monk), and one player run the first flag (usually an offensive caster or Warrior). Your flag runner should go and secure the Repair Kit and put it in a secure location back at base; safe from the opposing team:

This means the opponent has to rely on getting their kit through your team at the flag stand in order to repair their catapult early. This way they can't easily get hold of and controll both kits; which would give you a massive tactical disadvantage. It also means that at any point in the game when you feel the time is right you can bring that kit up to repair your catapult.

Catapults are very underrated in lower levels of play. If you manage to repair your opponents catapult it gives you a major advantage over them:

- Suddenly a single character from your team can prevent their flag runner from running flags out of the front of their base, which is a big advantage in a morale battle.

- If they are splitting you can effectively box them in their base by covering the front with just one guy.

- If the game goes to VoD you can catapult their NPCs as they come out of the base, giving you a huge advantage at the flag stand.

- If you are pushing them back into their base from a flag stand battle, you can cause them to full wipe through unwillingness to pull back through catapult fire.

It is only partly the physical advantage of having the catapult, also it is the psychological side.

[Their catapult: The one sieging your base
Your catapult: The one sieging their base]

This map does have multiple paths that allow for splitting, however there are also strong methods of controlling the movement of the other team through blocking paths. There are lots of narrow areas on the map that can be blocked by as few as two or three people:

Genrally the imbalances I mentioned refer to ability to body block on the map; and how that favours the attacking team to an extent.

The Defenders front and back gates can be completely blocked by two people:

The Attackers front and back gates both need three to create a complete block:

The Defenders catapult can be fairly easily blocked by three people, preventing them from sieging people in your base.

The Attackers catapult can't be blocked with as few as three:

The Defenders base has multiple points that are blockable and cause problems, such as stopping them getting people out to gank or run flags when you have them pushed back. The attackers base is much more open:

Body blocking is a very potent tactic, once you master forming quickly. It helps you controll certain points on the map and put the other team at a disadvantage. It basicly gives them full mobility through an area, whilst denying you. The collision boxes on characters are set so opponents are effectively bigger in the area they take up. This means when you set up a body block, you can do it so members of your team can freely pass through, but the other team can't.

However; I would still not say this is a bad Guild Hall to choose. It does offer certain disadvantages, but on the whole it is very balanced and allows for a decent amount of flexibility. It is not a haven for spike like Burning Isle, and it is not one that can turn into a split nightmare like Frozen Isle.

Wasteland Squidget · Jun 10, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Excellent description. I've never been a fan of playing on these maps because of the random catapult, but I can see that it adds another layer of strategic depth.

Might want to add the areas the catapult targets on both sides to the map.

And congrats on the Skill Point.

Byron · Jun 11, 2006, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Most useful, especially the first map/diagram. Personally, I like this map best since it doesn't discourage balanced and splittable builds. I'll leave it at that - Very commendable.

chefung · Jun 11, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Wow, I just realise that map is not perfectly symmetric in sense of the bodyblock thing. I just wonder, is Red = attack side or Blue = attack side? Thanks

So, meaning, in a GvG, higher rank guild is the attack side right?

Makkert · Jun 11, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Very nice JR!
The bodyblock collision boxes: opponents > allies, that's something I didn't know.

Thumbs up, excellent guide.

Stupid Shizno · Jun 12, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

This is our GH of choice, and I knew about the imbalances, just didnt realize how big body blocking was on this map.

Opeth11 · Jun 12, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

I never realized how beautiful that hall is.

Great write-up, JR-.

fatboyslimerr · Jun 12, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Good Job, I love this hall (only till my guild gets the jade isle though) and its just great for splitting except I think we use the defensive path as an offensive attack route. I think the catapults basically secure victory after you kill an entire guilds team. If you body block and defend the non catapult defended exit and then get your mesmer (me

) to man the catapult, they ain't really got much choice. At least it gives us a chance to get some morale if they were winning on morale, for the impending charge on their NPCs and guild lord.

Wasteland Squidget · Jun 12, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatboyslimerr

Good Job, I love this hall (only till my guild gets the jade isle though) and its just great for splitting except I think we use the defensive path as an offensive attack route. I think the catapults basically secure victory after you kill an entire guilds team. If you body block and defend the non catapult defended exit and then get your mesmer (me

) to man the catapult, they ain't really got much choice. At least it gives us a chance to get some morale if they were winning on morale, for the impending charge on their NPCs and guild lord.

One thing to remember is that catapult fire is random, so it's possible to miss. Likewise, it's reduced by such skills as Prot Spirit and Shelter. A team can get their NPCs out through catapult fire using Shelter, and individuals out using Prot Spirit.

In general though, I agree with you. The catapult is a great threat to have over the enemy team, and something that seriously affects the way they can play.

Edit: Now I think about it, I'm pretty sure the attacking team can get out under catapult fire by moving to the right of their door and hugging the wall instead of taking the stairs. I've done that several times and gotten out, though it's possible the catapult just missed.

fatboyslimerr · Jun 12, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Its not exactly reliable but it limits the movement of the enemy which can never be a bad thing

Lynnrose · Jun 12, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Very nice guide. Thanks for taking the time to make it! Two suggested edits: Given that (particularly in higher level GvG) you can't count on the other team to rush right in and cap the stand first, it is likely better to have a caster take the first flag so your warrior/ranger/ass'n isn't rendered impotent during a standoff because they're toting the flag around. Also, it might be a good idea to drop the thief off with your footmen just outside the base rather than keeping her "connected" to a monk (because you don't know for certain that particular monk will go on a split). That way, if you want to split you're not reliant upon the monk stopping what they're doing to go talk to the thief if it's necessary to release her.

kagunster · Jun 12, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

just fyi dont have a warrior carry first flag, have an ele or mesmer do it, monks need the extra energy from the staff, and warriors cant attack with the flag, and you never know how long youll have to carry it before you can kill the opposing flag holder or they cap first, capping flag first is something i would never reccommend

JR · Jun 12, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by kagunster

just fyi dont have a warrior carry first flag, have an ele or mesmer do it, monks need the extra energy from the staff, and warriors cant attack with the flag, and you never know how long youll have to carry it before you can kill the opposing flag holder or they cap first, capping flag first is something i would never reccommend

Normally I've found the second cap comes fairly quickly, so there isn't really any waiting around. If there is you can always pass it off to a caster as you said. Fair point though.

Damien · Jul 22, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58

A great guide, never thought about how much you could use the bodyblocking on this map. just remember that although the attackers can use the doors to bodyblock you, and therefor forcing you to take the other way out, you can use this to shield your own backline if defending

Just a note on the catapults: When you have reapaired the enemies catapult and then proceeded into their base you may want to keep an eye on the catapult. Sometimes the defending team get someone out who uses the catapult to kill the attackers. It do not happen often, but it happened to my guild once.

Nortos · Aug 31, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Great job big help it's. :P also once when we had our flag runner outside they were coming in we had both monks dead and they repaired their catapult we were back at our guild lord so our flag runner set off their catapult killed their whole team except 1 war who our mes galed and we finished him :P

moriz · Sep 12, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

just some additional tidbits that might be useful. i currently cannot provide screenshots to prove myself, but rest assured that whatever i say is true.

- all four "wall" archers in the attacker's base is reachable using a longbow. not all the four "wall" archers in the defender's base is reachable using a longbow. obviously, the "wall" archers in the defender's base are on higher ground than the ones in the attacker's base, giving them longer range and slightly more damage.

-the two "wall" archers in the defender's base are not hittable by the catapult. the two in the attacker's base apparently are hittable.

-the catapult attacking the defender's base can hit one of the two interior archers (the one on the left on the map). both interior archers in the attacker's map can be hit by the catapult.

-ganking the archers in the defender's base is more difficult for non-teleporting characters, because they are positioned so that a non-teleporting character has to deal with poor line of sight and dead ends.

-the npcs in the guildlord area in the attacker's base are positioned close together, making them weak against heavy AoE attacks.

those are the ones i've observed playing on this map. since this is not my home turf, i can't really test any of it and provide screenshots.